Sorry to interrupt your Saturday football schedule but this little tidbit was sent in by a regular reader who is seriously pissed. Apparently our earlier post on the latest tax increase er, tax gouging being proposed in our economically stricken county got reader “Jon Boy” to thinkin. See our original story here. Given just how much time we spend on the Transparent California website checking out the massive disparity between public employees and the rest of the public who pays them we’re not quite sure how we missed taking a peek at the salaries in the Arcata Fire Protection District but we did. Boy, did we miss a humdinger too! As you might expect the Arcata Fire crew are doing pretty darn well for a two or three-day a week job much of which is spent sleeping. But it’s not the salaries that are going to rile you up. Actually the salaries probably will piss you off plenty but the benefits are what really sent us to the moon. The ratio of “Captains” to regular firemen is pretty off the charts too. Get this, AFD lists 12 full-time Chiefs and/or Captains and 8 full-time firefighters. We kid you not! The former cost you and me around $150,000 each while firefighters around $85,000. The District even has an Administrative Assistant that costs us over $100,000. If they actually pass the new tax maybe we can do away with all the actual firefighters and make everyone a Captain.  There’s no way we could make this crap up but you can see the actual source here.

Frightened? You should be but we’re not done yet. As we wrote above, what should really make you mad is the benefits. Arcata Fire District has sunk our confidence in our appointed and elected officials to a new low. The benefits WE are paying for, essentially EQUALS the base pay. Even AFSCME isn’t attempting to gouge us that badly.

This obviously is a management issue. We wonder if the Directors of the Arcata Fire District are paying any attention whatsoever to the departments books? It could be that they’re just protesting cuz they’re only paid a paltry $1,125. Since they aren’t bring this information forward we obviously had to. If anyone is interested in letting them know just what you think here they are: Chairperson – Linda Sundberg, Vice Chairperson – John Davis, Secretary – Dennis Lindstrom, Director – Steve Tyler, Director – Elena David.

We certainly hope the voters in the Arcata Fire District will keep these facts in mind when voting on Measure A, the Districts latest attempt to raise your taxes so that their employees can make even more than you. Of course we shouldn’t forget that the County is also pushing its own new tax through the system. When is enough, enough?

If all this doesn’t ruin your day try this. That’s all for today. We got a fresh case of Mike’s and are off to catch the game.

Vote early! Vote Often!

 

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44 Responses to Hey Sports Fans! Check This Out!

  1. Anon says:

    Seriously? We are paying for 12 Captains to supervise only 8 Firefighters? We shouldn’t just call these so called Directors we should be RE-calling them. Shameful.

    Like

  2. Arcatan says:

    I’ve met Lindstrom, Tyler, and Sundberg. They seemed like intelligent people but if this is happening on their watch I think I need to reconsider. I don’t necessarily buy into the income disparity issue but to be paying 12 supervisors and 8 staff in any industry indicates a serious problem in management. I assume that the Board Of Directors authorized this new tax proposal but can anyone confirm this?

    Like

  3. Worker Bee says:

    This is hilarious and frightening. Well worth re-posting: https://youtu.be/EmC26RuO26g

    THANK YOU THC. It’s refreshing that somebody is showing a little common sense. This blog is the greatest thing to hit Humboldt in years.

    Like

  4. Mac Towner says:

    Is Director Sundberg related to Ryan Sundberg?

    Like

  5. Azalea Mom says:

    Yes, That’s Linda Sundberg. She’s a conservative business owner who should know better then this. I’d be very surprised if she actually voted for this tax increase.

    I like this blog too though I’m regularly depressed by much of the information I discover here. I guess it’s like finding out you have cancer. At least it’s better to know what’s going on so that you can treat it. The fiasco at Humboldt Area Foundation still has me depressed and no one there will even return my call.

    Like

  6. Tax Fatigue says:

    Wife?

    Can someone explain to me why all these Fire Dept’s go for the property tax’s instead of a sale’s tax. Which in my eyes would be much more fair. Everybody benefits/Everybody pays.. instead of just the property owners getting shafted for the whole bill.

    I have to laugh at AFD’s fear based Measure A campaign “because your safety matters” if you don’t vote for it you will perish in flames or die of heart attacks….. what a crock of nonsense!

    Wake up Arcata/Mck voters get out and vote this BS down NO on A

    Like

    • MOLA42 says:

      Tax Fatigue:

      “Can someone explain to me why all these Fire Dept’s go for the property tax’s instead of a sale’s tax.”

      I can, but you won’t like the answer.

      Sales Taxes are what are called “Regressive Taxes.” The burden falls more heavily on the poor since their income is more quickly spent on the necessities of daily life. In short, you may pay more sales tax dollars than a minimum wage earner, but a greater percentage of the minimum wage earner’s salary goes to pay the tax (and less on the necessities) than your salary does.

      Since Fire Departments are paid to protect property (and the people associated with that property), property assessments have always made more sense. Personally, I think they still do.

      And before you accuse me of advocating property tax just because I don’t pay it: Let me remind you that my landlord is more than happy to pass on such costs to me in my increasing rent payments.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Tax Fatigue says:

        Some how I do not think AFD is concerned about the poor. More like very nice salaries and bloated pensions.
        I whole heartedly agree that FD’s are paid to protect property, but thank god that here on the Coast catastrophic fires are extreamly rare.

        In talking to my neighbors ALL are completely satisfied with the excellent AFD services we have currently and feel safe. We ALREADY pay the highest fire taxes in the county, why would we want to pay more?

        The only people I know that are for this tax are AFD employees and the senior citizen voting bloc that they have managed to scare with their fear campaign.

        I am not anti- Fire Dept. by any means, I just think that they should manage what they have more wisely.

        Wake up Arc/McK voters and dig into this issue and get out and vote, I have and I am voting NO on A

        Thanks THC for exposing this important issue. You guys have a knack for telling like it is and backing things up with links to facts and not propaganda.

        Like

    • MOLA42 says:

      Tax Fatigue:

      Also…

      I admire your confidence that you home will never burn or you will never suffer a heart attack.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Tax Fatigue says:

        I do try to take care of my health, but we will all go sometime.
        Also I am proactive on protecting my property’s… I don’t smoke in the house, no overburdened electrical outlets, no unattended candles or space heaters, functioning smoke alarms etc. etc.

        Like

      • Arcatan says:

        Probably no indoor grow scene either…..

        Like

  7. Just Watchin says:

    Jonboy throwin fellow government workers/union brothers under the bus? WOW!!

    Like

  8. I know, I spend just as much time checkin’ out the website Transparentonepercent.nut . Its amazing that those owners and their managers can get away with that salary – not to mention then spending the excess on political campaigns. It makes me so darn mad sometimes!

    I’m glad that we can agree that there is equal access to information resulting in equal amounts of anger. Darn private sector exploitation! Amiright? Anyone?

    Liked by 1 person

  9. get A clue says:

    No, Jon You are not right; you are dead wrong as per usual

    Like

    • shucks, you are right. There is no transparentonepercent.nut. There’s also no transparentpropertyowners.us that allows us to see what income Humboldt landowners extract from the land and comparing the extraction income to the amount re-invested.

      It must have been a dream.

      Darn it get A clue. When you are right, you are right. I’ll begin focusing my anger again on those that we do have data on! Let’s get ’em! *resumes sharpening pitchforks*.

      Liked by 1 person

  10. MOLA42 says:

    Again, THC, thank you for the information.

    But also again I must caution that we have just one side of the issue here. Yet people seem pretty happy to make final judgments based on only the information provided.

    I don’t know enough about fire departments to know if AFD’s staffing situation makes sense or not. My own take is that it doesn’t (more Chiefs than Indians does not sound like a good organization model). But my take is essentially useless in determining how things should be.

    I just don’t know enough and I imagine the same is true for most of us.

    It is my hope that the AFD will take a different tact than HAF and answer some reasonable questions.

    But don’t hold your breath on that possibility. The times others have tried to answer questions posed in blogs like this; they usually wound up with that person becoming the whipping boy. Who’s going to sign up for that job?

    Like

    • Ha Ha! More Chiefs than indians. Great call. That might even earn you some free stuff if we ever get around to it.

      We took your excellent point to heart and set aside a cold bottle of Mike’s just long enough to check with the Humboldt Fire District 1 staffing schedule. It’ll be of no surprise to anyone that our nonscientific eyeball average is that they are running about three staff for every chief/captain. Virtually the inverse of Arcata. Don’t take this as an endorsement of the mis-management at Humboldt 1, just that in this aspect they do not appear to be nearly as f’d up as Arcata.

      Liked by 1 person

  11. Anonymous says:

    I know Linda Sundberg and she knows definitely better than this. I think it’s a case of things being different if it’s not your money. She’d never allow this kind of obvious waste in her own business.

    Like

  12. Hack says:

    Ugh. When will you get it right? The County has no new tax to push. That’s HCAOG. Second, just because that site (which makes no claims to the accuracy of its info, btw) lists 12 capts and 8 firefighters doesn’t mean jack. And I’m not even a firefighter fan. Their benefits package is crazy with all the shit they get to do with their schedules and retirement. It’s nuts and it drains public resources like no other. However, you need to Ask the fire dept itself how many capts and firefighters it had before you spout off claims like they’re true. Check their records for the real story. Stop being so lazy.

    Like

    • Hi there Hack, welcome to THC. You’ve brought up a couple good points that deserve a response. First, you’re absolutely right, we’ve got no idea how many Captians and firefighters the District has. All we know is how many they are paying. That data comes from the state website that is designed to tell us exactly that. Check for yourself here. There could also be a bunch of firefighters working for free but we kinda doubt it. While we can’t claim not to be lazy in general, we really don’t think it applies in this case. We really did do our homework on the website that’s designed to provide exactly this kind if information. If you know something otherwise please, please, please let us know.

      As far as the new tax thing goes you should be aware that HCAOG is made up of elected officials and the county certainly has a vote. Regardless, it was the County alone, led by Ryan Sundberg that voted to waste $30,000 on a poll to test if they could shove a new tax on us. If our County Supervisors were as dead set against a new tax as you might hope then why would the vote for the poll? Sorry new friend, but the facts here speak for themselves.

      Like

      • MOLA42 says:

        “There could also be a bunch of firefighters working for free but we kinda doubt it.”

        Well…

        Actually, AFD does have firefighters working for free. They are a volunteer fire department (as are all others in this county except Eureka’s and CalFire).

        It could be (just guessing here) that the volunteers fill out the roster to work along side the professionals, so the Chiefs to Indians ratio might not be as bad as it sounds.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Hi MOLA42!

        As usual you provided a thoughtful relevant question. So much so that we called a reliable source in the department for more information. Apparently the ratio of Captains and Chiefs to Firefighters and Lieutenants is currently about one to one. Not quite as bad the the 2013 data shows but seriously, one to one? Each shift has three Captains and four Firefighters and there are four Chiefs. Wow. Of course none of this addresses the benefits fiasco. We’ve finally found a group with more expensive benefits than teachers. We didn’t think it could be done. Double wow!

        Like

      • Hack says:

        Look! A blogger pretending he’s a journalist who does research. Is it real, mommy? Yes, son they’re real. Hopefully one day these creatures will learn to check their Goddam sources before they proclaim things as facts.

        That’s not a site that has state information. Nowhere does it proclaim accuracy of info. It’s a small outfit that tries to gather data independently. A great effort that needs to be done certainly. But not one that can be used as verifiable data and definitely is not data from the state of California.

        What’s more, that you say this shows how many people are on staff at the fire department is irresponsible and again not doing your research. It maybe hard for you but try typing in to the google machine the wires Arcata fire district. Click on the first result and do some research there. Look at the budget. Read the effing tab that says “career firefighters” and tell me the ratio of captains to firefighters you see there. It’s not 12-8. Granted they should have better personnel allocation data in their budget but they’re site actually has good info that you can rely on. That is, if you’re willing to do some real research.

        Like

      • Hey Hack!
        Welcome back! Not to totally burst your bubble but we called back our source in the department and asked about where they got their data. Ha ha! Guess what? It came from AFD’s own propaganda. Really hurts when an organisations spending is so out of wack that even their own staff rats them out! Check out their very own website and we’re pretty sure that you’ll find all the information in our last comment with regards to staffing. Of course you are correct AFD doesn’t list their salaries and benefits. We wouldn’t either if we were spending what they are.

        Like

  13. I wonder if the volunteer is the type of government worker THC would like to see more of. I mean I’d do my job for free if I had the discretionary income to do this. Is this the model we want?

    I used to work with these volunteers as an EMT and even volunteered once myself so I know a little about what they do and why to pay them a salary would be very expensive and probably not feasible. But is this kinda the model that property owners are really looking for? Think about this – how many conservative rural property owners are complaining about the fee they have to pay to Cal Fire.

    Isn’t that the perfect conservative form of taxation? Fee-for service? I guess as long as it isn’t them.

    And this is another example of how maybe if the muckity-mucks’ salaries are tied to the every-day workers with a “me-too” clause there would be some restraint on the increasingly higher pay for those higher up in the government administration.

    But I know as equal-opportunity whistle blowers you will be taking a look at these type of issues from all sides and not simply from the Taxed Enough Already! viewpoint. I’ll keep holding my breath for a little longer.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Cousin Eddie says:

      Hey Jon, nobody likes that fee except you, and calfire i guess. It’s not a fee for service, its a fee for nothing.

      In a statement to the Times-Standard, Chesbro said he strongly supports the lawsuit to overturn the SRA fee because “the fee is unfair and duplicative.”

      “The way the Board of Forestry has chosen to assess the same flat fee of $150 to all Californians, regardless of whether they live in a mobile home or cabin on the foggy, rainy North Coast, or own a multi-million dollar estate in the tinder dry hills of Southern California, makes no sense and is unreasonable,” he said.

      Wait for it….Chesbro’s not a real democrat, right?

      Like

      • So, it’s duplicative? I don’t like the idea of a fee-for-service either. I don’t like means testing. This is a society and we have communal costs that must be met. Fee-for service is a very conservative notion and it’s ironic to me that the rural red areas are up in arms for paying their fair share when it comes to a necessary public need. Not only that, but they are down with $0 income for fire work.

        I have a feeling if we do an accounting we would find in CA the same thing we find nation wide. The red areas, ie the rural areas, tend to not pay their fair share. It makes sense. It’s not like there are a bunch of income opportunities compared to industrialized or populated areas, but you have to admit it’s ironic when they are the ones who complain about government the most. I think we could go through rural life, to include fire protection and come up with a bunch of socialistic programs that are critical that go underappreciated.

        http://s3.amazonaws.com/newscloud-production/the-daily-record/2015/10/5621482f2d61289c9e001555/photos/woo10547385/photo_gallery.jpg?1445021752

        Regarding Chesbro…He’s retired. Woods and McGuire are real Democrats who really endorsed Rex Bohn. Yes, I’m angry and extremely disappointed. With 2010’s prop 14 we are going to see a whole lot more running toward the middle and this is going to only guarantee more corruption it what is one-party rule in CA.

        Like

  14. Just Watchin says:

    I’ll let you know what Mr. Crandall thinks of your views when I hear from him. Given the people that I’ve copied, it shouldn’t take long….

    Like

    • JW: I don’t know if that is a joke a threat or some combination. I don’t give a shit what the outgoing Crandall thinks b/c I love my work, I do the absolute best I can (and I think I do a good job – especially from the client’s perspective), and there was a parchment that was signed over 200 years ago. I’m good, thanks for the concern.

      Here’s what you bring up though. The intimidation is a real thing. I’ve experienced it. I’ve been moved when other’s, who seem otherwise like rational people express the associated fear. This was during my time at City Cab when I was trying to gage the interest in a union.

      People were scared. Grown men and women, great at their jobs, making < $10/hr as a Paramedic we afraid to even talk about forming a union b/c they thought it might be detrimental to their jobs.

      I'm sure these types of threats go on implicitly or explicitly throughout this county or where people are desperate for income. Again, as I wrote MOLA, I think I can feel the history of these types of threats in HumCo specifically from those long-timers I have worked with. It's different here than other places I've work.

      Thanks JW for giving us insight to the real power. It isn't in the libs and government. It's in the purse strings, it's in our bosses and their bosses. That's why they don't like collective bargaining. With individual bargaining there are fears (realized or not) that can drop the negotiated wage. With collective bargaining, these fears are reduced – even though outlets like THC are trying to continue them.

      Jon Yalcinkaya
      Currently an EW with HumCo's DHHS
      These opinions are my own and not those of AFSCME, Democrats, or the DHHS.

      Liked by 1 person

  15. Just Watchin says:

    A Uber driver on a bicycle. Now that’s a good one!

    Like

  16. Cuz – City Cab is doing what they can to use government and strong-arming to regulate their monopoly on cab service. Why can’t Plaza Cab pick up in Eureka? I don’t know but they can’t. When is THC going to do an investigation on the excesses of the private sector anyhows?

    Like

  17. get A clue says:

    Hi there OffTopicJon,

    I notice you have your own blog…why don’t you pose those questions on it and see what kind of discussion it generates, and stop trying to change the subject through threadjacking.

    “strong-arming” – Ha, I know both the owners and the manager, and they are certainly not strong arming anyone; all are deeply involved in our community and are committed to making it a better place.

    I sense a bitter ex-employee from atop that bicycle.

    Like

    • Again, responding to comments, well, like yours. You know the owner and manager as I do. What is their feeling on unions? What would your feeling be if you owned a business. Would you encourage them? Would you encourage your employees to bargain together or would you find it a better business model to do what is within the law to restrain any collective bargaining? It’s pretty simple. I’m not saying the owner and manager are not great people, not great family men, not great community supporters. What I am saying is their inherited family business needs to make money and in order to do so it is best if they can keep wages as low as possible.
      Also, I’m sure Plaza Cab would love to begin picking up in Eureka. Do you think Fred is up for a little friendly competition? That’s the conservative way no? Free markets and all.

      Like

      • Cousin Eddie says:

        hey jon,
        all business needs to make money or pretty soon there’s no business and then no jobs. i worked on a union gig once. what i seen was a bunch of people who normally are pretty cool and hard workers, then when they start getting together and bitching, they turn into a bunch of assholes, bitchin about this and that, mostly petty bullshit. grievances for silly stuff, just to “teach a lesson’ or what not. and people that wasn’t worth a shit hanging in there cuz they know the system, or tight with the business agent or what have you. you know if your working with that guy, your doing all the friggin work. ya, no thanks, if i want a raise, i ask. no raise, i start looking.

        Like

      • That’s common sense Cuz. That’s the current meme – especially in HumCo. Much more the character of the people is more important to you than the purpose of the organization.
        Do they don’t hand out pennants based on the likability of the players? It’s crazy. But I get it and it’s where we are right now.

        Those no-good, lazy, alwayz-bitchin’ union folks. I don’t want them near my kids! AmIright? I mean, except for those hard working ones that will work for free or don’t mind if their wages go lower than my own. I mean, by rights their salaries should be the same or lower than ours, right?

        Keep up the good work Cuz. There are a bunch of employers out there who would love to hire you and you will move up the ladder quick with an attitude like that! Just make sure you kick the ladder out after you make it to the second or third rung. We don’t want others up there with you.

        Like

      • Cousin Eddie says:

        I do, Jon, I do. Kick it right out from under whoever’s slack i gotta take up cuz theyre off bitching instead of working. hahaha. and you know, i do get offers from time to time. an attitude like work hard and keep the bitchin to legitimate shit? if you bitch about all the dumb stuff, nobody listens when you have a real beef. read: little boy who cried wolf. there’s a lesson in there for ya.

        Like

  18. Cousin: Please google productivity vs wages (images) and look at the graph to see what this refers to…

    1970: Lazy-ass worker bitchin about non-legit stuff: Boss, I can’t afford to make ends meet. My wife is going to have to start working so we can afford a vacation this year.
    Cousin Eddie (entry-level mill worker): Stop your bitchin!

    1980: Lazy-ass worker bitchin about non-legit stuff: Boss, my family isn’t going to be able to make ends meet when my wife and I retire without that pension that we lost when we were bought out.
    Cousin Eddie (Floor Manager): Stop your bitchin! We’ve got people in government. If you don’t want to work for these prices, we know people in Mexico who will

    1990: Lazy-ass worker bitchin about non-legit stuff: Eddie, University prices are going through the roof. I’m going to need a raise if I have any hope of sending our daughter to college.
    Cousin Eddie (Supervisor): Stop your bitchin! We are really struggling here and we have hard working Canadians coming down here to do your job if you don’t want it. Citizens? It don’t matter.

    2000: Lazy-ass worker bitchin’ about non-legit stuff: Eddie,those Bay Area folks are moving up here and the home prices are skyrocketing. I can’t afford rent.
    Cousin Eddie (Shop Supervisor): Stop your bitchin! Look, this Mill is about to close down b/c of those damn environmentalist libs. Take it up with them.

    2010: Lazy-ass government worker bitchin’ about non-legit stuff: We need a COLA raises.
    Cousin Eddie (Has run a couple of times finally breaking through with great backing from local business owners). Stop your bitchin fool. Lookit. Everyone else is barely making it. The business owners? Well they are doing fine, barely, but they are our county’s job creators – don’t worry about them. You should be worrying about yourself. If you can’t earn a living wage, stop your complaining, work hard, and maybe you too will get a raise some day. Just like me.

    You can also google union participation, USA (images) for more context.

    Like

    • Cousin Eddie says:

      good one! lets try that in real world–

      1970: Lazy-ass worker bitchin about non-legit stuff: Boss, I can’t afford to make ends meet. My wife is going to have to start working so we can afford a vacation this year.

      Cousin Eddie (entry-level mill worker): Stop your bitchin and hand me that board, while you’re complaining, the chain is backing up! You want to work a swing shift or overtime this saturday?

      Worker: No, I’m going out drinking with my buddies!

      1980: Lazy-ass worker bitchin about non-legit stuff: Boss, my family isn’t going to be able to make ends meet when my wife and I retire without that pension that we lost when we were bought out.

      Cousin Eddie (Floor Manager – at new job because the old company dropped their pension): Stop your bitchin! You know we have that 401K that you can contribute to. If you put some away, the company matches it. I’m doing that, you should check it out. The last place I worked cancelled our pension plan.

      Worker: I can’t afford that, we just bought a new car. I don’t trust the stock market. I’m buying lotto tickets! and beer!

      1990: Lazy-ass worker bitchin about non-legit stuff: Eddie, University prices are going through the roof. I’m going to need a raise if I have any hope of sending our daughter to college.
      Cousin Eddie (Supervisor): Stop your bitchin! Did you ever go to those classes I asked you about to become the safety manager? I told you we’d pay you extra for that?

      Worker: No, my personal time is too valuable to me right now, I’ll get around to it.

      Cousin Eddie: Well, you better tell your daughter to get good grades and apply for some grants, and probably get a job if she wants to go to college. You know our customers won’t pay any more for our product. Any ideas where to cut costs?

      Worker: hey man, not my job.

      2000: Lazy-ass worker bitchin’ about non-legit stuff: Eddie,those Bay Area folks are moving up here and the home prices are skyrocketing. I can’t afford rent.
      Cousin Eddie (Shop Supervisor): Stop your bitchin! You should buy a house, get away from paying that rent.

      Worker: I haven’t saved any money. Have you seen my boat? It matches my pickup! Pretty good deal, $200/month for 12 years.

      Eddie: How much interest are you paying?

      Worker: What?

      2010: Lazy-ass government worker bitchin’ about non-legit stuff: We need a COLA raises.
      Cousin Eddie (Has run a couple of times finally breaking through with great backing from local business owners). Stop your bitchin fool. Lookit. We are deficit spending and have almost no reserves. You guys all have this me too clause, so a raise for one of you actually means another $1.5 million that we don’t even have in the first place. Show me where to find that money and I’ll do it. Also, do you think it’s fair to give raises when it means cutting services?

      Business Agent: Not my problem. My job relies on promising my folks more money. If you don’t do what we want, I’ll run people against you and I have backing from out of the area to make sure we win. Once my people take office, raises for everyone!

      Cousin Eddie: You know you won’t be able to do that, we don’t have the money.

      Agent: Shhhhhh.

      Like

  19. Just Watchin says:

    I’m just amazed that the lazy ass bitchin worker has been steadily employed since 1970. Just goes to show the level of compassion of business owners.

    Like

  20. Hilarious back and forth here guys. Thanks for all the insightful wit and humor! I’m sure we can come back to the government worker vs private sector wage disparity issue soon. For now has anybody noticed that the topic has moved on to how the county is going to Pot? Check it out here!

    Like

  21. “Just goes to show the level of compassion of business owners.”

    They are job creators JW! Of course they have compassion. Duh. This is the free market and owners working for us, and thank you for understanding this.

    Cousin: You said this “good one! lets try that in real world–

    I had a couple of graphs to back up my story, did you take a look? What was important wasn’t the story, but the graphs. What backed up your story was you saying it was real.

    That seems to me to be the ultimate difference between today’s left and right. It’s also why credibility is so important in politics. It’s also why THC will not touch the question of if they were wrong to attribute the AFSCME letter specifically to AFSCME leadership. Are they knowingly duping us or did they, themselves get dupped.

    Like

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