Humboldt feeling the effects of Government land grab

Every now and again on THC, you’ll be treated to a logical, well-stated, and polite argument against the actions taken by our local governments. Often times, those actions include over-paying of upper-level government cronies, or spending shit tons of money on completely unnecessary things.

Just recently, one such argument was posted here. And, of course, it didn’t come from us!

It came from Ken D, who left us with some excellent things to think about, and walked away with a big ol’ bag of free stuff courtesy of the THC gang for winning July’s Top Comment award. His comment – shown below in its entirety – was so good that fellow blogger John Chiv gave it a shout-out too! That’s how frickin’ good it was. So, check it out:

“Nothing against Ms. Debets, I don’t know her and certainly wish her the best. However, perhaps this is a good time to re evaluate whether her position and others similar at both the City and County are cost effective and/or even needed. As we know most levels of government are top heavy with high paid management, while not enough people with common sense are actually getting the work done.

The City of Eureka, by wringing their hands with all these public meetings at the Warfinger on what to do with the 3+ acres of waterfront property that they own is laughable. First of all, a public entity like a City or County shouldn’t own any real estate except for perhaps the City Hall or the County Courthouse that they actually occupy. Most, if not all real property should always stay in the hands of private individuals or entities, if for no other reason that they are the only ones who pay the property taxes. This particular property has been vacant and a blight on the waterfront for 30 + years and by now the City has demonstrated that they do not have the expertise to develop it.

According to the Time Standard article the other day and during one of the aforementioned public meetings on what the City should do with this parcel, someone with a modicum of common sense mentioned selling the property. What a concept? First of all, the City could definitely use the money and secondly, they wouldn’t have to waste all this time having their employees and high paid consultants attend all these idiotic meetings on what should be built there. A private individual would and should take the risk on what would work at that location and the City should butt out except to approve the zoning and building plans.”

— Ken D, Master of Comments

Dang it all, if that didn’t make us tear up a little! You’d think that after the 30+ years the City of Eureka has wasted on the waterfront property, that somebody would have suggested they sell it off. Of course, the City is too stupid to listen to such advice, but hope springs eternal. So, THC fans, go ahead and let Eureka’s City Council know they should stop screwing around. And of course, Ken D was playing to the crowd when talking about the need to reevaluate the necessity of certain high-paying jobs in the county.

Ken D’s discussion also reminds us of the County buying up the McKay Tract for the community forest. We poked a little fun of that in the past, and we will be certain to do so again. To be clear, we aren’t against trail systems and all that. They’re pretty sweet, in fact.

But we do object when such projects take focus, funds, and energy from areas that need way, way more improvement than a trail system. I’m absolutely certain there’s already a lot of trails in Humboldt. I’m not so sure about jobs, building permits, and general business growth.

In closing, way to go Ken D.

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31 Responses to Humboldt feeling the effects of Government land grab

  1. Again*, thc – I want to point out the ideology in your blog. Something you might not want to acknowledge or something you might not be aware of.

    This is a “Government Land Grab”. Really? So when previous iterations of private industry internalized profit and externalized costs to such an extent that they could no longer sustain their land and then the public, as it is wont to do (ask Richard Marks) buys and pays for the past, present and future liabilities – this is a government land grab?

    I’m not talking about trails or an oyster bed on this property. What I’d like to see is a government-private partnership to support our local fisher people over, say, Pacific Choice. Think CSA (Community Supported Agriculture) for the fishers (with a great location for a weekly seasonal farmers market too). Public/Private partnership in a way that works and won’t cannibalize other business (2 BLOCKS OVER FOR GOODNESS SAKE!).

    Again, “free markets” blindness is as destructive as socialist utopianism. I hate to tell you this, but there are no communists in this country, our problem now is we have erred way, way too far to a religious anti-government pro-private zealotry that we often do the wrong thing.

    Even when the answers are literally right in front of us. (Just look across the bay – hint, the term “starboard” is used on them but no where else)

    Government Land Grab

    Ha, rich.

    Government (Read: us) Bails Out the Private Interests Again. “Free Market” Again Proven to Be So Much Baloney

    is more like it. More at eleven.



    • Cousin Eddie says:

      Oh My God Liberal Man! There is no free market anymore, good or bad, the government set it up so nobody can do a freakin thing without a gazillion permits, rules, fees, and inspections. The first sonofabitch in line with their hand out is the government. That is not a “free market” my friend.

      What a total waste of money, a f*ckin design charade. If any of those idiots had a great plan that would provide a ton of jobs and make an ass load of money, they would have done it. They don”t, so instead, they get to put forth stupid ideas at somebody else’s expense. you’re going to end up with some white elephant that 26 people liked and 26,000 people saying, “I wonder why they put that there? Doesn’t make any sense” – “Oh, well they liked it at the design charade.”

      Shit’s not really all that complicated. You want to see something go on over there. Give the land away to the first sucker who says they’ll do something with it. Put a time limit on it. Hell, LMOB, even put some stupid commie crap in there about trails or whatever. But offer up some land for free and you might see some interesting shit going on over there for a change. County ought to think about that too.


      • Most of the people there leading the charrette* (not charade, but such an appropriate word – nicely done) were architects, designers, landscape architects – ie private enterprise people. Rob Holmund, the City’s Economic Development direct was really impressive – believe me, he will have a bright future in private or public service, so don’t worry about him.

        “But offer up some land for free and you might see some interesting shit going on over there for a change.”

        You are more right than wrong here and in much of your response too. I do think the charrette was more show than not. I also see the problems of 26 people with their own ideas planning a waterfront – have you ever ,ever seen anyone use the ampitheater near Adorni? There were many ideas and drawings for another theater.

        I’m skeptical with you but I’m skeptical from the left. Rob briefly introduced other projects that the city had planned for the other land. These properties would probably not get the same public input most likely b/c they are in private hands. These designs included a baseball field where the bridge is??? WTH? Can’t you place a baseball field anywhere else?

        I’m really moved Eddie by the commie trails. What would these look like? Paved trails painted red with pictures of Lenin every 20 ft? I like it!

        * It’s a word, look it up (I had to) and it’s what they called it. Please pass the arugula.


      • Mitch says:


        Speaking of no free market any more, please invite Jon to look up “regulatory capture.”

        Jon has this weird thing about labels, so maybe he’ll get it once he can label it. The trick is in understanding that “liberal” and “conservative” are labels, and just because a group of people have pasted on the same labels doesn’t mean they share the same values. These days, political labels are often used (rather similarly to the church, I’d say) as ways for malefactors to hide from people too lazy to examine the specifics of actual, unique, situations. Unfortunately, the world is made up of a succession of actual, unique, situations, not talking points.

        Liked by 2 people

    • John Chiv says:

      Excerpt from the link above:

      “The key point to understand is that an economy is a kind of operating system. This means that if you want the economy to “do” something — such as create more jobs — you have to go about it the way the operating system is designed to work. Otherwise you cannot possibly succeed.

      Think of it this way: our cell phones have operating systems built into them. There’s no Republican way to make a phone call with your iPhone, and no Democratic way to do it. There’s no conservative approach to checking your email with a BlackBerry or an Android, and no liberal approach to doing it. You just do it the way your cell phone’s operating system requires.

      It’s the same with an economy. Broadly speaking, there are two kinds of economic operating systems: a free-market economy and a command economy. In a free-market economy, the government sets the rules and enforces them, but otherwise stays out of the way and allows individuals and businesses to call the shots. In a command economy, the government’s role is so large that it not only sets and enforces the rules, but also calls the shots.

      Because each country — unlike each cell phone owner — designs its own economic operating system, no two economies are precisely the same. So our country’s free market is somewhat different from Canada’s, which itself isn’t quite the same as Germany’s, Poland’s, France’s, Australia’s, and so forth. Still, in all free-market economies, the government makes and enforces the rules, and then gets out of the way. Likewise with command economies: left-wing communist economies differ somewhat from right-wing fascist economies, but once again, the similarities are more important than the differences. In all command economies, you do what the government tells you to do, or you get your brains kicked in.

      Entrepreneurs Create Jobs

      In a free-market economy like ours, it’s the entrepreneurs who create jobs. They do this by starting new businesses, and by expanding businesses that are already up and running. If you want to create more jobs, you create an environment in which entrepreneurs will thrive. They’ll take it from there, because creating jobs by starting and expanding businesses is what thriving entrepreneurs do.

      Think of it this way: if you want more milk, create an environment in which cows will thrive. And just as it makes no sense to say you want more milk but oppose cows because they’re smelly, dirty, and leave their droppings all over the place — it makes no sense to say you want more jobs but oppose entrepreneurs because when they succeed they often wind up with more money than the rest of us. You cannot have it both ways.

      Entrepreneurs thrive when they are confident about the future. Every time an entrepreneur makes a decision to start a new business, or to expand his business by launching a new product or service, he or she is putting his own money — and his employees’ futures — on the line. So an entrepreneur wants to know what taxes he’s going to pay in the years ahead. He wants to know what his costs will be for high-priced expenses such as his employees’ health care. He wants some certainty that the regulations in place when he launches that new product or service won’t change six months later and destroy his investment overnight. And an entrepreneur wants some confidence that the overall economy will be sufficiently robust to provide customers who’ll buy that new product or service and by doing so enable the entrepreneur to earn back his investment and make some profit besides.


      • That’s one heck of a long “excerpt” John! But seriously, great link. If only more people would read/understand such a thing. Who, in all of Humboldt County, do you wish you could get this in front of the most?


      • John Chiv says:

        Sorry THC, the lengthy response was 1 point I was trying to make to liberal jon. Tie between Baykeeper and EPIC as answer to your question.


      • Thanks you for the primer on entrepreneurialism JC! I don’t disagree with the nuts and bolts of it. Go out there, feel confident young business owner. What you should know young business owner, what this article doesn’t tell you, is that Denmark is not a command economy (or do these writers think it is?) In Denmark McDonalds workers do earn a living wage of $22/hour.

        The question really is, do we want our workers and our environment to survive with the prosperous successful entrepreneurs? There are a hundred and one little thibs the right will tell you John and thc to get you to support what is actually an operating system that benefits wealth, not entrepreneurs. It’s why liberals keep pointing out income inequality. The gig is up, people are getting it. The last of the people who will get this will be the ones that Reagan and Rush have blinded with narratives. Narratives that are continually reinforced by right-wing websites like the oxymoronic “American Thinker”. (which I love btw – it is one of the 10 or so conservative websites I bookmark.)

        That whole story is a lie John, there are not just two types of government operating systems. The world and it’s countries are incredibly complex and the cold war is over. One very entrepreneurial and capitalist society happens to be China. We can see this even here in Eureka. As a former cab driver I used to shuttle many of China’s winner’s children who were students at St. Bernards High School from place to place. It was an honor and a privilege to witness the reverse of what occurred in my lifetime – as American’s toured and populated the world after the success of our middle class after FDR’s policies and WWII.

        One last little thib in that article John….

        “The more President Obama calls for a second stimulus spending spree to create those jobs the first spending spree failed to create,”

        Here is the truth.

        It might not be pretty, we’d all like more opportunities, but it’s real and it corrected a major disaster from 2008 to 2009 that unregulated, unmanaged, unsustainable speculation will invariably create.

        Liberals have to clean up the messes after conservative utopians (read: the wealthy) convince enough people to buy into their latest money-making scheme.

        The “land grab” (or accurately, government fixing what the private sector destroyed) is another perfect example. What local conservatives want is to double down and create even more tourist friendly boutique shops anchored by a place to house the people from afar who will enjoy them. In short they want to expand the retail ecomony. This serves to raise land prices and will make very few even more wealthy in Eureka, but as Measure R proved, the wealthy could care less if those they employ make less than a living wage.

        But as long as their children have a summer job, we are good. Right?

        Thanks for caring John and attempting to enlighten this liberal with “An Economic Lesson Even a Liberal Can Grasp.”

        Liked by 1 person

      • One more thing that can’t left standing…Republicans are the ones who were obstructing every single attempt President Obama made at creating jobs. Another little lie in that article.

        “The more President Obama calls for a second stimulus spending spree to create those jobs the first spending spree failed to create, the more he sounds like the grocer in that old joke about the lady who wants her money back because the dietetic ice cream the grocer talked her into buying hasn’t helped her lose weight.”

        “Republicans have blocked every effort since the stimulus to maintain infrastructure, hire teachers, raise the minimum wage, give equal pay for women, stop special tax breaks for millionaires corporations (especially oil companies), stop tax breaks for sending jobs out of the country, provide student loan relief, help the long-term unemployed, and more. Instead they insist on even more tax breaks for oil companies and billionaires, on cutting environmental protections, deregulating oil companies, and so on.”


  2. Milldoin says:

    Government tends to perpetuate it self with other peoples money. The Bill of Rights were created to protect the people form the Government.
    I agree with Ken D., government should not own property and should stay completely away from business.


    • Sammy says:

      Right on Milldoin. As far as the City ownership of the land/s; consider the land that they are doing ‘charettes’ about. Its our understanding they bought the piece to clarify and straighten out the huge messy title issues once and for all. Do you not remember the sad, decrepit Buhne Building?

      Predictably, some folks want the whole thing built into an open-space park. . . groan. When will these people learn? Isn’t there already a hugely expensive City owned park/open-space with dedicated access to boating on the bay with a music concert amphitheater called HALVORSEN PARK next to the hugely expensive Adorni Center and other public use buildings to the north?????

      Rob from the City planning staff admits that it is likely that 50% of whatever is done on that will have to have dedicated parking. Guess these folks don’t know that either, or were sleeping during that part of the presentation.

      The City parking ordinance could be changed, truly.

      Yet, if folks really want parks etc. then they should be okay with walking to them and parking on the streets or riding their bikes or taking busses to get there.


  3. John Chiv says:

    Liberal Jon, your philosophy is Conservative=bad, Republican= bad, Rich = bad. Democrat and liberals and government = good. If someone does not fit in your little box, they are wrong. When confronted with facts certain liberals in this town cannot argue against, insult your opponent or throw out unrelated names of businessmen and information irrelevant to the topic. Liberals like you are only tolerant if one agrees with you. I see you are silent on the mega grows now. Where is your outrage when it comes to greed and environmental destruction? Did the HCDCC talking points you parrot ignore that convenient fact?


  4. Reply thread ran out – Thanks Mitch for the comment via Eddie. Love the personal attacks. C’est la vie. Gonna go get this lazy ass moving now. Got stuff to label.

    Mitch. Labels are important, especially in a County that votes 25% Democratic. Our system allowing the public to decipher who is who and fighting for what has broken down.

    Please read the American Thinker and see if it fits categories. Please review the outrage on this blog and see if one can generally categorize it as Government = bad. It’s pretty simple and I am pointing out the major flaws in this argument. One of them is that there is no standard to compare government too. We don’t know how efficient, our brethren in the private sector are. We don’t know how much the make, what day-to-day decisions they make, etc. All we are left with is fewer and fewer living wage jobs and a political system with one party that has sold it’s soul to the wealthiest 1% (and those that can further the argument with hate and entertainment) and another party that is playing catch up.

    Government = bad is what allowed this County to buy into the Girard bs of the past 10 years. It’s what allowed a conservative libertarian leadership to waltz into Supervisor Chambers and re-write the GPU to one acceptable to property owners and developers. Mitch, you too are no friend of government or the system nor are many on the anarchistic left.

    We do need establishment, that’s what the liberal generation on the other side of you from me Mitch didn’t get.

    “Regulatory capture is a form of political corruption that occurs when a regulatory agency, created to act in the public interest, instead advances the commercial or special concerns of interest groups that dominate the industry or sector it is charged with regulating.”

    So, Mitch. Less regulations? That’s what caused the government to have to come in and take over property that a series of exploitative industries destroyed. Damn, I should have known.

    I love this blog thc because it distills the essence of the argument on the right. Like a good distillation, through your writings we will get a clearer definition of who we are and we will be able to give those who care more information about what is really going on behind the scenes. Keep up the good work – now if you will have the courage of your writings to de-anon yourself too. Kudos for John, Mitch and Uri for doing so. (btw, Jon Yalcinkaya)

    John, I don’t swear often or ever online – I did for this post.

    Liked by 1 person

    • John Chiv says:

      Jon, that is one post. And you have made some comments on blogs. Big deal. Your doggedness on the same people, the same issues is out of proportion. Your denial to ever admit you are wrong, which is often, speaks for itself. Dialogue with you is futile because you don’t listen, you just need to keep responding and repeating.


    • Seriously? says:

      Jon: You are a fuc-ing wack job. Even Jeff Lytle makes more sense then you. Please do not move to McKinleyville.


      • Mac Towner says:

        Good point Seriously. I really think he belongs somewhere south of Mac Town. We’ve got enough nuts here already. Maybe he can take his loser of a Stupidvisor, Ryan Sundberg with him. They both really fit better in Arcata anyway.


  5. One more thing Mitch. I went to as many of the charrettes as I could without missing work.

    “These days, political labels are often used (rather similarly to the church, I’d say) as ways for malefactors to hide from people too lazy to examine the specifics of actual, unique, situations. ”

    It’s a good meme, it’s a good label to call people lazy, but often there are specific, unique situations and people. In this thread, including thc members, how many others attended?

    I’m not saying you have to, I’m just using my personal work to beat-back one of Mitch’s favorite complaints about me and others like me in the dwindling middle class.

    Mitch, I understand where you are coming from, I understand the anger and you are often more right than wrong. What I don’t think you understand is the power of the right wing memes nor do I think you have a plan to work against them toward a society that looks more like the one you imagine needs to happen….yesterday.

    I don’t really either Mitch, I’m just doing what I can, and calling things as honestly as I can.


    • Mitch says:


      Here is the secret. The people in government? They are the exact same people as the people not in government. The only difference is the people in government can compel folks to do what they tell them to do.

      Cops? Those are people in government. Do you get upset when the police are able to boss people around who they really have no business bossing around? I’ll bet you do. Do you feel glad when cops arrest burglars? I’ll be you do.

      Regulators are cops. When good people are doing regulations, we get good regulations — maybe safety belts, maybe meat inspections. When bad people are doing regulations, we get barriers to entry that benefit the friends of the bad people who are already doing business in a field. The barriers to entry will never be called bad, they will be justified as being vital to the public safety. And it’s really hard to tell that one meat inspection rule is for safety and another meat inspection rule is actually there to benefit a pre-existing mega-corporation. That’s part of what I mean when I say labels don’t work, and you need to have the flexibility to recognize different situations are different.

      So neither “government = good” or “government = bad” is a sensible equation, each equation only works when you have predefined what sort of people will be running the government and occupying the bureaucracies. Sometimes, government is good. Sometimes, government is bad. But either way, government gets to tell people what to do. And over time, the people in government change. So before you grant government a lot of power to do good, you’d better think long and hard about what effect that will have on society if and when bad people get into government.

      It doesn’t even have to be bad people — just people who think their little rule will make things better, and who don’t have the experience of having tried to satisfy 300 rules, each from some other person who thought their rule would be helpful. And each rule creates more work for bureaucrats, who (in the case of badly run local governments) will sit around debating exactly what font should be used in the form that businesses are supposed to submit, until they realize after a few weeks of consultations that they really need to hire more staff to enable them to make that decision, at which point they become managers. And eventually, none of the staffers will really understand rules, and it will be time to bring in outside consultants to explain the rules. And, of course, there needs to be an increase in property taxes, because you have to pay the staff and the managers and the HR people to hire staff when people quit in disgust, and the consultants who are brought in to try to clean up the messes. So, even if you start out with a well-run, tightly managed government, you’d better be ready for what happens when someone who thrives on bureaucracy rises in the system and takes over. Because what you’ll end up with is a system that is really good at finding reasons why nothing can ever happen, and it will be developing the rules for the area’s businesses.

      So I’m sorry if you felt attacked by me, Jon, but I don’t think you are even in the neighborhood of a clue.


      • Mitch says:

        That last sentence was over the top. I’m sorry, Jon, it was a bad day and I was taking it out on you.


      • Beam Me Up says:

        Mitch, I don’t know you or any of the other posters here but after reading many of the Liberal Guy on a bike’s comments I actually think your points were right on target. Guy needs to slow down and think about how clueless he really is. I consider myself pretty far left and he still makes no sense to me. There are nuggets in there but they get lost in the static.


      • Cousin Eddie says:

        Comment of the day, or whatever! Mitch, you f*cking rock! That’s the truth right there. Not sure what experience you had, but that’s exactly the crap I seen.


      • *Face palm*

        Mitch – I’ve said this before … the reason I am “liberal” and the reason I focus on “good government” is these are the targets of the right. It’s the milieu that prevents us from working on FDR’s America. FDR’s America would look a whole lot more like Canada or Denmark, but the stories from the right – the ones about boot straps and government bossing people around has people angry. So you won’t read a whole lot of nuance in my arguments, but that’s simply b/c of where the frame currently exists and where we need it to be. You and Uri are two examples among many who either don’t get it

        Then they (private sector, business, money) do clever things. As you rightfully point out they not only tell the stories in entertaining and emotional ways that get people’s attention, they also rig the system. So, for example, we do know the salaries of those damnable and contemptible public servants so we know all their names and shout at them each time the look askance at us. OK, fine. Have you also noticed, they (money, business, private interests) will do everything they can to prevent real, useful information from even getting measured. Gun safety information is just the tippy-top of the iceberg.

        Here is a little secret for you (don’t tell John) business is good too. So are the people who run them. In Democratic socialist countries like.. Denmark…wealthy people understand that they have a collective responsibility too.

        So Mitch, was it government that ultimately created the devastation that took the lands owned by the City from vital to neglected, or was it more likely changes in taste and the ability to make a buck easier somewhere else?

        Will it be a public-oriented planning process or a private one that best has a chance to produce a future that looks different from the hospitality industry standard that you and I both know property owners are salivating at the chance to exploit.

        You may live far away so this may not have the urgency to you that it does to me. But I think that a public process has much better odds at giving reality a chance. Trust me, I understand that chance is a sliver, but I know from personal experience here in California that if the Chamber of Commerce has it’s way we don’t have a shot. What we will get with developers leading the way is anything to make money on their plot of land. What we as a community need to make sure happens, and government should be leading the way on this as the public’s representatives, is that land to be productive in it’s own right (and that may not mean financially productive) and if this is done right, that productivity supports all those private and public interests around it. Need examples of how to do this – look at Arcata. As Rob H pointed out at the beginning of the charade, I mean charrette, this could and should be Eureka’s Plaza. (not exactly the plaza but it should be the heart of what we can and should be).


      • Arcatan says:

        Well Jon you finally nailed something and you probably don’t even know it. You hit on an absolutely key difference between an excellent staff member and one who represents all that is wrong with so many of our current crew. You pointed out that Rob Holmlund said, ” this could and should be Eureka’s Plaza”. Kevin Hamblin would have waited for the people and officials to direct him as to what it could or should be. That’s the difference between arrogance and activism in a staff person and integrity and duty in another. Holmlund regularly lets us know that he’s so much smarter than the rest of us and Hamblin might just be smarter but you’d never know it.

        Not my town but Eureka should watch their backs they have a Girard clone in the hen house.


  6. Mitch – don’t worry about it. I don’t partake in the personal attacks and I’m really not offended by them. Rush and Glenn call us libs evil every day. I’ve developed a thick skin. I also just found the quote of Sid Berg calling us HCDCCers proto Nazis and then ironically another letter to the editor from Uri that day saying we on the left are the ones calling developers “evil”.

    In many ways, my labels may seem like judgments, but I don’t mean conservative or Republican or business or private sector as = bad. I do mean government and people and middle class = good. Republicans and conservatives = good too, they just have different ethics.

    Honestly, this is the way I see it. I used to work at a theater in McKinleyville and used to have to upsell Coke and popcorn and lie a little to do it. I did it b/c I had to and I thought it was kinda understood that no one really came to a theater to get the 411 on the nutrition of popcorn or the sugar content of a large Coke.

    That’s what I think the right does. It’s not malicious, they have a plan for America and their families and they are going to do what it takes to get there – a little lie either to oneself or one’s family about the cause of global warming – no harm, no foul. Some of them really believe that we need fewer people who look different than us b/c otherwise we will be stuck with a culture with _____ (insert complaint d’jour), others really believe that if government would stop handing out stuff people would be self sufficient. Very, very, very, very few people may understand that they do need to make sure that people are on the verge of being desperate b/c those are really, after all, the most motivated to do good work.

    So, never a need to apologize, this is politics, emotion should rightfully be a part of politics. I found Dean’s scream awesome. After all, that is what we need to get rid of the Gil Fulbrights. We need people to have their heart in this. I personally take the insults as political badges of honor. Hope tomorrow is better for you.

    Lazy/Clueless Jon


  7. To be fair Arcatan, Rob’s point, well made with visuals, was the importance of the location. He drew arrows of the transportation routes and with a quirk or two in Eureka’s city streets, all roads lead to the waterfront.

    It was a quick and not unassailable point – it was well made though. But you may have hit on another meme of the right you were not aware of …the arrogance, activism and haughtiness of those elitists. Don’t worry Arcatan, Rob strikes me as a fellow who will make sure those people paying the bills go to the front of the line. Hopefully I’m wrong about that.

    I pay doctors with plenty of education, skill and training to do surgery. I’d like to pay government civil servants to work to do jobs such as plan, etc. You are right Arcatan, our civil servants are rightfully directed by us through our representatives – and Rob made that clear on Friday – the Council would have the final say. But some of those folks are smart and they do know more than us because, well, they’ve studied, they’ve worked in other locations, and they get paid (by us) to review and do work for us.

    God forbid they be competent and maybe a little proud and sometimes let us know they are human and have opinions too. I would hope Rob does have opinions, and I for one wouldn’t mind hearing them. In the end we all know he will be directed by our Councilwomen.


    • Cousin Eddie says:

      Dude, comparing a Dr. to a land planner? WTF? I’ve never heard of nothing so shit-all-stupid as that. The only reason that planning is messy and complicated is cause they made it that way, unlike the human body, which came that way. If your dr screws up, they get sued somebody might die. If the planners screw up, what happens? oh….nothing. apples and oranges my friend.

      You shouldn’t need 600 pages of bullshit and a dozen f*cking meetings to figure out what people want on a piece of land. Offer it for free, and see what ideas other people have, people who are prepared to risk their own greenbacks. You better believe they will do something that people want, or they will lose their ass. nobody really wants to do that.

      Urban planning, a joke. It’s set up so you can exclude certain types of peoples from living by you (the ones that don’t make enough money and are the wrong color)…thats what urban planning is. Poor folks, get in town. We’ll even build you a place. Rick folks, don’t worry, no po’ folks will be able to live by you, we’ll make all kinds to rules for that.


      • “The only reason that planning is messy and complicated is cause they made it that way, unlike the human body, which came that way.”

        Eddie, if we are going to do planning right, it is very, very complicated. Society is a mish-mash of all those – i would agree – infinitely more complicated human bodies.

        But just as a Doctor is extremely limited in her own knowledge of the body (ever heard of specialists as one example) and what she does is fairly straight forward on a day-to-day basis, so should a planner’s work be.

        There is a great deal of complexity in planning which can be made simple by selling each plot to an individual owner and saying – have at it.

        However, if we want to address problems like – affordable housing, racial segregation, global warming, choice in housing, ISIS, etc – many of these problems can be worked on in something that intuitively seems as incongruous as city planning.

        Did you catch ISIS? I stand by it.


      • Cousin Eddie says:

        LMOB –
        What is doing planning “right”? That scares the shit outta me. I have an idea your right and my right are way different.

        Ha ha. You want to address affordable housing without actually letting people build houses…funny shit. Explain that global warming + planning deal to me. Is this where we all live downtown and ride our bikes to the farmers market to sell our hemp baskets? We could change our name to Utopia. That should help.


  8. Mitch says:

    “So you won’t read a whole lot of nuance in my arguments, but that’s simply b/c of where the frame currently exists…”

    Why not forget about the frame for a bit and try for some nuance, and see what happens?


    • Mitch – just listen to the other side and know that 30 to 60 percent of their base agrees with it and not any of them will stand up against it. I’ll leave the nuance to the electeds, I’m working on the frames – for the most part. I’ll leave some room for nuance.


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